Subcompact MPVs need to be a thing in North America

"not for canada - australian in disguise" (for-canada) 06/14/2016 at 18:02 • Filed to: None

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Take the Toyota Sienta, it’s the size of a Yaris, but it’s a minivan. With sliding doors and everything. Sure, it looks a little odd on the outside, but that’s what’s in now, funky looking cars.

And you can fit 7 in a car based off a Yaris! Don’t know how comfortable those rear seats are, but for small children, it’s most likely fine. That’s who’s going to be sitting there most, if not all of the time anyways.

Then there’s the B-Max. It is to the Fiesta what the C-Max is to the Focus. However, this one’s got sliding doors. It only seats 5 though.

But would you look at that! No pillar.

Then last, but not least, the Opel Meriva. This could be sold as a Buick or a Chevrolet in North America.

The Meriva does not actually have sliding doors, and it has a pillar. Instead, it has suicide doors. EXACTLY like a Rolls-Royce Phantom.

There’s our dearly departed friend the Skoda Roomster.

And then there’s the Dacia Logan MCV (Good news!).

It’s a bit more of a wagon if I’m honest.

Come to think of it, the Soul fits in this class too, also the 500L. But that’s all we get. And the 500L is crap.

Boxer_4 > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 18:10

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Toyota should bring the Sienta over as a Scion. Oh, wait...

not for canada - australian in disguise > Boxer_4 06/14/2016 at 18:11

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RIP.

dogisbadob > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 18:13

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I totally agree. They’re awesome!

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 18:22

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The Mazda5 was pretty close but didn't sell all that great but Mazda also really didn't do much in terms of advertising or any big refreshes to help things.

RT > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 18:22

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Meanwhile in Europe we complain about these instead.

I like some of them myself, but others are basically subcompacts in hat.

not for canada - australian in disguise > RT 06/14/2016 at 18:23

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I see what you mean.

At a glance, I have no idea how anyone could tell this is any different than a Picanto.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 06/14/2016 at 18:24

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The 5 is a compact MPV.

duurtlang > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 06/14/2016 at 18:24

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The Mazda 5 is much larger than these.

RT > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 18:27

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And if you go back a few years things look a lot less glamorous.

This is the Ford Fusion

Despite the familiar name, this is just a dressed up Fiesta which rides slightly worse and costs slightly more. Not even any more seats.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 18:45

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That Toyota would look great in my garage next to an S-FR.

LongbowMkII > duurtlang 06/14/2016 at 18:46

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And too small for the US. Kind of says something.

RCMF - is hungry for V10 Touaregs and long kinja names > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 19:00

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They’d almost need to sell them with a “sporty” aspect though... I can’t imagine that people (at least in the U.S.) would get on board unless there were some performance/loud noise marketing gimmicks. It’s just not enough for us to have small, practical cars with efficient, low-powered engines.

duurtlang > LongbowMkII 06/14/2016 at 19:00

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It does. I like the (somewhat old now) example of the Opel Omega, the biggest Opel/GM Europe product at the time. In the early 00s it was discontinued without replacement because there was no market for non-luxury extra large comfy barges. This car was, slightly Americanized, available in the US as well, as the Cadillac Catera. Suddenly it was ‘sporty’ and ‘luxury’, and also ‘too small ’.

No one buys a US-size minivan here anymore, the car that popularized minivans, the Town and Country 1984 Renault Espace, has become a crossover. The only ones still offering full size minivans are VW (and its clones) with the Sharan and Ford with the Galaxy. Both have about the same exterior size as what we’d call a Chrysler Grand Voyager. A 1992 Grand Voyager that is. Both are slow sellers.

Svend > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 19:02

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What about the Citroen Nemo/Peugeot Bipper TePee/ Fiat Qubo?

not for canada - australian in disguise > Svend 06/14/2016 at 19:04

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Those are more like full on vans, a la Transit Connect Wagon, which North America gets. Although I believe they’re a good bit smaller, still, more van, less car. Although by that metric the Roomster doesn’t count either. But the Roomster’s weird.

Svend > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 19:06

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As a Skoda owner I’m thankful that hideous thing is no more. One of my colleagues has one and everytime I see it I just think ‘dear God, no’.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Svend 06/14/2016 at 19:10

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It was fuck ugly, but really useful. I think they should bring it back, but as a stretched Fabia that isn’t nearly as ugly.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 19:26

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Many would love to see these in North America, but Canada isn’t a big enough market and the US has crash standards like no other country on Earth.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 06/14/2016 at 19:31

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Canada has a bigger market than Australia and New Zealand combined, and they get specific models imported their that other countries might not get.

Amoore100 > RT 06/14/2016 at 19:38

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Hey, our Fusion was just a slightly smaller Taurus with some shitty Duratec engines...

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 19:41

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I should have said “LHD market,” since Aus and NZ are RHD. Canada and Europe also do have crash requirements that don’t apply in Japan, and they are no joke. Imagine that Sienta in a 5mph bumper test—the damage would be atrocious!

And I just noticed your jab at the 500L. I have one and it’s not crap.........yet!

FromCanadaWithLove > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 19:48

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We get the C Max and the 500L. You’re right about the 500L being crap. The C Max is too. I’d bet a toonie that all the others are crap, also.

Probenja > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 19:58

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You can get a Lodgy MPV although it’s quite a bit larger:

I’d say the Soul isn’t an MPV but a funky hatch like the xB, the 500L is more MPVish but still quite boxy. I’d say you need an even shorter or lower hood to classify as an MPV, like the bubbly Picasso:

not for canada - australian in disguise > Probenja 06/14/2016 at 20:37

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How big is the Lodgy? Is it much bigger than the Logan MCV?

RCMF - is hungry for V10 Touaregs and long kinja names > RCMF - is hungry for V10 Touaregs and long kinja names 06/14/2016 at 20:49

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Or, come to think of it, a luxury component. Make them comfortable and quiet on the interior instead of cloth-and-plastic and I bet that could catch on, maybe?

Svend > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 20:53

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I like th Fabia, but the Fabia estate looks wrong.

The Roomster I look at and thing the guys that designed the front and the rear worked different days and just went ‘here, deal with it’.

Probenja > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/14/2016 at 20:55

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Actually it looks bigger than it is, basically it’s a boxier and taller Logan mcv that has a third row.

It has a similar size to a Mazda5 and the Logan is more like a Golf Wagon.

not for canada - australian in disguise > FromCanadaWithLove 06/14/2016 at 21:02

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C-Max is Focus based anyways. I’m talking MPVs based off of cars that are Fiesta/Yaris/Fit, et cetera sized.

bhtooefr > Amoore100 06/15/2016 at 04:32

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It was actually a Mazda6...

bhtooefr > not for canada - australian in disguise 06/15/2016 at 05:02

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Note that not many of these vehicles interest me, but... here’s the problem with the two-row versions of those, really - Americans want their tall cars to look chunky and have impractical normal doors.

The Sienta is a three-row, so it gets a pass. (How’s crash safety, though, and how does it work for American-sized people? It’s worth noting that the much longer Prius v lost its third row for the US due to passenger space concerns, while it (in Prius + form) kept its third row in Europe.) Mind you, I actually think there’s a market for Toyota to bring in one size up - the Noah/Voxy/Esquire - converted to a cargo van, but kept as a hybrid, to compete against the Transit Connect/NV200/ProMaster City for urban delivery. (It’s to the point that I’ve heard of fleets buying C-Maxes for urban delivery, to get the benefits of hybridization there, even though it compromises their cargo capability.) The Sienta’s also available in hybrid configuration (the one you have pics of is one), so maybe it could work in that niche, without the third row. It is also worth noting that it’s much longer wheelbase than a Yaris, at 2750 mm - that’s even longer than a Corolla or a Prius, even.

The Roomster is more of a Soul/500L-esque thing to me, and the Logan MCV is a wagon/crossover/whatever thing.

The Meriva will help me illustrate my point better, so I’ll start with it - it doesn’t have a clever door configuration, the suicide doors won’t actually help you load a kid into a child seat or whatever, they’re just weird. It’s worth noting that the Meriva is almost identical in size to the Mokka, although longer wheelbase, and slightly lower. And then, comparing like-for-like powertrains (1.6CDTi 136PS ecoFLEX 6-speed manual), the Mokka gets about 11% better extra-urban fuel consumption, and 4% better urban fuel consumption.

Oh, and we already have the Mokka in the US. We call it the Buick Encore.

As far as the B-Max... we don’t get the EcoSport that I’m going to compare it to. (I think it would sell if Ford brought it, though...) The EcoSport is quite a bit taller (about 100 mm/4"), mind you, longer wheelbase, and longer overall, but conversely, the B-Max has an actually clever door configuration. There, I’d expect the EcoSport to be worse on fuel (but Ford’s UK brochures aren’t showing a single identical powertrain between the two), so there’s more of a case for the B-Max... but would it sell? The C-Max sure hasn’t...

RT > Amoore100 06/15/2016 at 06:19

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Very true

That model did set the hydrogen speed record - but the car used was barely a Fusion by that point.

Amoore100 > bhtooefr 06/15/2016 at 08:58

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Details, details...not to mention that the contemporary Taurus was on Volvo’s P2 architecture...